The part you see that bothers me more than the rest is the constant hacking at the pensions... first it is just a little of my social security Bush wanted. But he never moved on any of his promises, so I guess we weren't good boys, and then ALL the larger pension funds are being raided and the courts mumble around while the CEO keeps his share. GM was first, Ford will follow suit when this next step to cut the mini-van line hits. Chrysler will follow soon. [img]/LDPforum/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] I'm glad I've got 30 years under the old system, looks like you younger folks might as well face it- if you don't get pretty lucky- you gonna work till you DIE. Oh, yeah, and I almost forgot healthcare....well I might as well anyway.... [img]/LDPforum/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] And we spent 80 BILLION a year in Iraq? Hmmmm.... give the oil industry , the poor broke fellows, 500 billion more for "Research ". Red Skelton did better than this. [img]/LDPforum/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] Who is foolin' who?
Yeah I would say it would be a touch subject for the baby boomers...they don't want ole GW messin with what they got coming but those same folks say hey if you are younger than 40 then screw you. Do I want to keep paying into a system that isn't going to be viable by the time I get to retirement age? Heck no...why would I?
The one party control(well not quite yet since Alito has not been confirmed as of noon today) has came about because of what voters do at the polls. are you saying there is this huge election conspiracy that has caused the republicans to gain control of both houses of congress and the executive branch of gov't?
I acknowledged already that corruption exists and yes most of what you mentioned in regards to the nature of the corruption is valid...but to say they were placed in power by the corruption is just not valid...they were placed in power then the corruption ensued would be a more appropriate chronology...similar to Clinton being placed in power(by the american people) and the executive corruption which ensued during his presidency.
Ripped from MSN....
SCARBOROUGH: All right, Pat, though, I"?I read an article by Cramer (ph), who you fought after GM shut down its plant. And he said the only reason why Ford Motor Company is not performing well, it"?s not because they don"?t make good cars. But the only reason Ford and GM are failing is because they have got great health care benefits, because they have great pension plans.
And what he suggested that GM did was declare bankruptcy so they can break their deals with their workers, the pension contracts, so they can break the union contracts, so, basically, they don"?t have to pay these great health care benefits anymore. Is that what it has come to? If you want to survive in America, you got to stiff the workers?
might as well kiss us . [img]/LDPforum/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]
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they were placed in power then the corruption ensued would be a more appropriate chronology...similar to Clinton being placed in power(by the american people) and the executive corruption which ensued during his presidency.
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So you can see Democratic corruption, but not Republican corruption...I get it. Discussion over. If you can't see both sides...I can't make you see both sides if you don't want to. Clinton deserves impeachment, but Bush deserves a free pass. We get it.
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are you saying there is this huge election conspiracy that has caused the republicans to gain control of both houses of congress and the executive branch of gov't?
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Sometimes elections are decided not because voters are listening to who has the right message, but whoever shouts their message the loudest. For the past 8 years, Republicans have shouted their message the loudest and have gotten enough support to get by even though the policy measures they take on some things has proven out to be completely wrong given information that ensued after their decision was put into action (aka...the war in Iraq). How were the Republicans able to our maneuver the Dems? Simple. More money. More powerful lobby group support. More indignant proclamations of persecution (which I view as abusing Christianity for the sake of political gain).
I'm sorry--I will not and cannot get on board with you on this. As I said before--I'm not going to listen to someone I know is corrupt stand up and fight for morals and support them with my vote.
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Yeah I would say it would be a touch subject for the baby boomers...they don't want ole GW messin with what they got coming but those same folks say hey if you are younger than 40 then screw you. Do I want to keep paying into a system that isn't going to be viable by the time I get to retirement age? Heck no...why would I?
[/ QUOTE ] Yep , but the point you are missing is that we are EXACTLY where I said we would be in Iraq, Bush ran from his own advisor on social security, killing the chance at a window that might have offered change and he seems to be more worried about anyplace but the US. Another Rep would have been OK with me for a prez, but to elect an oilman? Common sense should have told where his interest was gonna lie. And I really haven't seen anything he has done to slow "gay" America. He could have kept one of the good promises he made, don't you think? [img]/LDPforum/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]
good post spuds. The morality issues are almost pointless when chosing a president, there will be little done in those areas(for or against).
I will acknowledge for the 3rd time that I agree corruption exists in our current gov't. I also never said Clinton deserved impeachment and was adamently against impeachment hearings when during his presidency. What I disagreed with you on was the order in which corruption takes place.
How do you feel the war in Iraq was completely wrong given the policy measures of the current administration...I hear this over and over but still never hear a valid explanation.
I don't think you need to get on board with me...its not about that...but lets just try to stick to the facts atleast...you don't have to agree with decisions being made but I don't see how you can question someones moral capacity just because you don't agree with the man...i admit i don't know if he is moral or not and you may be right but just to flat out say the man fakes his morality for his own political agenda to me is wrong. I'm not saying he is perfect but I don't wanna call him a hypocrit either
A little Pink Floyd and Money??? Is that what I hear? A CEO of the Big 3 auto makers jerks down 400 times what the hourly folks make? And we are told WE must learn to compete in the global economy? I see why so many get shot in other parts of the world. [img]/LDPforum/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]
the part of morality does play a part though when a President like Bush is picking a nominee for the Supreme Court . . . of course he's going to nominate someone pro-life which scares Dems. b/c of over-turning Roe V Wade. The fact is morality played a pretty big role in this years election a lot of people rely way too much on that one single issue.
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